Legislature(2003 - 2004)
04/28/2003 03:20 PM House L&C
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* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
HB 269-SAFETY CODE TASK FORCE CHAIR ANDERSON announced that the next order of business would be HOUSE BILL NO. 269, "An Act establishing the Safety Code Task Force; and providing for an effective date." Number 1389 REPRESENTATIVE DAHLSTROM, speaking as the sponsor HB 269, explained that that this legislation establishes the Safety Code Task Force. Representative Dahlstrom provided the following testimony: There are five primary safety codes dealing with construction in Alaska, which are under the jurisdiction of two different departments. The fire, building, and mechanical codes are under the jurisdiction of the fire marshal at the Department of Public Safety. The plumbing and electrical codes are governed by the Department of Labor. Each department is responsible for adopting a family of codes to bring uniformity and consistency to the construction industry. However, the current delegation of authority to the respective departments has caused a set of conflicts and discrepancies. The mission of the Safety Code Task Force is to suggest options for consolidation of our code administration function. The task force will be charged with presenting recommendations to the legislature by the first day of the second regular session of the Twenty-Third Alaska State Legislature. As part of the task force, we're proposing an advisory panel that will be appointed by the governor, representing the Division of Occupational Licensing, the Division of Fire Prevention, the Department of Labor & Workforce Development. The purpose of this group is to advise the task force on the effects of any changes in code adoption to their respective agencies. However, it is not my intent to limit the size and scope of the advisory to just these persons. To ensure the broadest representation of stakeholders, I would like to see all interested parties participate in a panel, and so therefore I would like to see this task force more forward without amendments; ... all interested parties do have the opportunity to participate. The Safety Code Task Force will consist of nine members, representing parties affected by the adoption of safety codes in this state. The make-up of the task force is as follows: an appointee of the Senate President, which would be a Co-Chairman appointee of the Speaker of the House, which would also be a Co- Chairman appointee of the governor. The following members are to be appointed jointly by the Senate President and the Speaker of the House, and they include: a representative from the construction design community; a representative from the construction engineering community; a representative for general contractors; a representative for mechanical contractors; a representative for electrical contractors; a representative for plumbing contractors. I urge positive consideration of House Bill 269, Mr. Chair, and there are others here who are available to testify and answer questions. REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG pointed out that these types of issues have been before this committee on numerous occasions. In the past, this committee has taken the policy of these code adoptions being done on a periodic basis in the department rather than the legislature. He noted that there has been correspondence regarding the lack of representation from "the fire plan check, fire department, and fire prevention-type area." He asked if any consideration has been given to including representation from the municipal building department, which is responsible for code enforcement. REPRESENTATIVE DAHLSTROM agreed that the fire industry should be represented, and therefore her intent was that the official representing the public safety interest would be from the [fire industry]. [The gavel had been passed to Representative Lynn.] REPRESENTATIVE GATTO asked if it would be safe to assume that the governor's appointment for that division would hopefully be the fire marshal. REPRESENTATIVE DAHLSTROM replied that she wouldn't want to assume what the governor would do. She related her understanding that the fire marshal's responsibility is to enforce the code once it has been decided. Number 1146 REPRESENTATIVE GATTO said he wondered if there would be interest in combining the mechanical construction and the plumbing construction member under one member. He informed the committee that California adopted the existing Uniform Building Code while Oregon adopted the International [Building] Code. Representative Gatto pointed out that California has more seismic concerns than Oregon, and therefore he was interested in California's use of the Uniform Building Code. For example, under the International Building Code if there was a seismic shift that caused the sprinkler line to break, there wouldn't be any sprinklers. However, under the Uniform Building Code there would have to be a source of water to operate the sprinklers. The aforementioned illustrates a major difference between the codes, and therefore he noted that he is leaning toward the Uniform Building Code. REPRESENTATIVE DAHLSTROM noted that she is aware that the two codes have major differences. She deferred to others present who are more versed in the codes. Number 0980 REPRESENTATIVE GUTTENBERG informed the committee that the state has a Seismic Hazards Safety Commission to recommend code changes that are necessary to accommodate those things unique to the state. REPRESENTATIVE GATTO asked if the Seismic Hazards Safety Commission is part of this proposed task force. REPRESENTATIVE GUTTENBERG noted that the governor hasn't appointed the individuals to fill the positions. REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG pointed out that currently there are state codes that are adopted. However, there is conflict within the statutes. Therefore, he said he understood the purpose of the proposed task force is to conform the statutes and overcome some of the problems and turf wars that have occurred. For instance, there have always been problems with the adoption of the plumbing code because those living north of Palmer have problems with their hot water tanks. Therefore, the provisions of local amendments are real. One of the problems is that the Division of Occupational Licensing is such that there isn't knowledge of which code is in certain areas due to the conflict of law. Representative Rokeberg related his belief that the representative from the construction engineering community should be someone who specializes in seismic issues. Number 0828 REPRESENTATIVE DAHLSTROM turned attention to the fiscal note. She highlighted that the recommendations from this task force are due on the first day of the second session of the Twenty- Third Alaska State Legislature. Therefore, this task force isn't long term and the costs are relatively small, $20,700. The costs arise from the three meetings in 2004 for which three days were budgeted for each meeting as well as travel costs of the task force members and one legislative staff. She specified that the fiscal note doesn't include travel funds for the advisory panel of state employees because any costs for their travel will be absorbed within existing executive branch budgets. The cost of the meetings is as follows: Anchorage meeting - $7,000; two Fairbanks meetings - $12,000. Furthermore, $700 is estimated for costs to teleconference meetings and print the task force report. There is also a supply budget of $1,000. REPRESENTATIVE CRAWFORD expressed disappointment that the list of members of the task force doesn't include any members of the actual workforce, such as labor. REPRESENTATIVE DAHLSTROM surmised then that Representative Crawford would want to include language specifying that there would be a representative from the labor community. Number 0666 ZACH WARWICK, Staff to Senator Gene Therriault, Alaska State Legislature, explained that Senator Therriault is the sponsor of the companion legislation, SB 180. In response to Representative Crawford, Mr. Warwick related that this issue has been considered a union/nonunion issue. He said that although the members from the mechanical construction industry, the electrical construction industry, and the plumbing construction industry aren't necessarily going to be labor representatives, he opined that the task force is well-balanced. He informed the committee that three people [from the groups to be represented] have almost taken a stance on the code they prefer, and three people are nonpartisan [type people]. [The gavel was returned to Chair Anderson.] REPRESENTATIVE CRAWFORD asked if these people have already been appointed. MR. WARWICK replied no, but people in specified industries have come out for or against each individual code. He noted that lists of those interested in participating in this task force are being compiled. However, it could get out of hand and the task force could reach a membership of say 40 people. REPRESENTATIVE CRAWFORD said that he took exception with regard to whether this is a union/nonunion issue. He recalled that last year mechanical and plumbing contractors as well as union contractors supported the Uniform Building Code. Therefore, he didn't believe it's a fair characterization. He reiterated the need for the task force to have some representation of the people who actually perform the work. The current list of membership could completely leave out those who do the work. MR. WARWICK opined that this membership of the task force is an equal, sort of bipartisan community that deals with the codes on a daily basis. CHAIR ANDERSON surmised that Mr. Warwick is saying that the representatives from the mechanical construction industry, the electrical construction industry, and the plumbing construction industry could include labor. REPRESENTATIVE LYNN asked if the language could be changed such that it specified the need for a balance between labor and management of these industries. MR. WARWICK said he didn't know how to word that. Number 0376 REPRESENTATIVE GATTO commented that the [sponsors] have probably heard from several people who want to submit their names because this is a powerful position. Therefore, he asked if [the sponsors] have been able to take notice of people who might have a financial interest by supporting one side or another. For instance building code officials have the International Code Council (ICC) as its parent company which makes and sells books dealing with the code. Therefore, there would be a direct financial interest. MR. WARWICK said that the above is something that the task force would consider. REPRESENTATIVE GUTTENBERG questioned why labor would be left out if the [sponsor] considers this a labor [nonlabor] issue. Without involving labor, a group that is seen as part of the problem wouldn't be part of the solution. MR. WARWICK clarified, "I don't see this as a union/nonunion issue" but rather an administration issue. CHAIR ANDERSON remarked that he didn't believe the representatives listed on page 2, lines 1-3, excludes unions. However, he agreed with Representative Crawford that it would've been nice to specify that labor would be represented and thus the legislation may need to be tightened a bit. MR. WARWICK related his belief that union representatives wouldn't be left out of this issue. Number 0143 REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG said he understood Mr. Warwick to mean that this isn't a union versus nonunion issue and asked if that is correct. MR. WARWICK clarified that he doesn't believe that this is a nonunion versus union issue. Number 0024 SAM KITO, III, Alaska Professional Design Council (APDC), explained that the APDC includes members of the design community, such as architects, engineers, land surveyors, and landscape architects. The APDC works for the benefit of all the design professionals in public and private service. He noted appreciation of Representative Dahlstrom proposing the task force because it has long been needed. TAPE 03-43, SIDE A Number 0001 MR. KITO related APDC's support of HB 260. However, APDC wants to ensure that there is balance on the task force membership. One area of concern is the member representing the electrical construction industry. He explained that both sets of codes refer to essentially the same electrical code, and therefore APDC suggested that the electrical construction industry member be an advisory member. Furthermore, APDC recommends that a building official be a voting member of the task force. The building officials that work for the municipalities of Anchorage, Fairbanks, and Juneau enforce the codes adopted by their respective Assembly. [These building officials] are members of ICC as much as they were members of the International Conference of Building Officials (ICBO) when that organization existed. Building officials provide a unique perspective because they have to deal with the codes every day. The APDC doesn't believe that building officials have a financial interest because they are municipal employees. Mr. Kito directed attention to page 2, lines 5-6, and suggested that the language "one family of codes" be changed to refer to a "consistent set of codes" because in Oregon there is a situation in which components of two different codes have been adopted and are working together. Number 0209 REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG asked if the language "consistent set of codes" would allow for components from the ICC and components from the International Association of Plumbing and Mechanical Officials (IAPMO) to be adopted. MR. KITO explained, for example, if the plumbing and the mechanical code don't work together when designing a building to one standard, [changing the language to allow components from different codes to be adopted would help] avoid such situations. REPRESENTATIVE GUTTENBERG asked, "But you could get a hybrid, as long as everything worked." MR. KITO replied yes, if there are two sets of codes, which is the case in Oregon and currently in Alaska. He explained that in Alaska there are some components of the mechanical plumbing code that are the Uniform Code while the fire code uses the International Code, and those are working together. REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG asked if Mr. Kito's suggestion to change the language on page 2, lines 5-6, should include a methodology for adopting local amendments. MR. KITO said he couldn't speak to that. REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG requested that Mr. Kito could pose the above question to the APDC. Number 0418 JOHN BITNEY, Alaska State Homebuilders Association, informed the committee that he has a bit of a background with HB 260, in terms of representing the association this year and representing the Alaska Housing Finance Corporation (AHFC) for the seven years prior. Mr. Bitney recalled Representative Dahlstrom's comments that there are two agencies that deal with building codes, which is correct. However, as a subset to the building code, there is a residential code that applies to homebuilding. This residential code is de facto under AHFC, as a sort of "third" agency. This "third" agency exists because no state residential building code has been adopted. Therefore, AHFC statutes require a home to be inspected to ICBO construction standards. Mr. Bitney explained that because the fire marshal has adopted the International Building Code as the code in order for AHFC to conform with the rest of state law and policy, AHFC has received an opinion from the Department of Law. This opinion specifies that ICBO inspectors, as provided under state law, inspect to the International Residential Code. Although this isn't the best situation under which to work, the Alaska Homebuilders Association is comfortable with the status quo. If the legislature wants to address which code should be adopted, the association is supportive of a task force. "We do support the bill," he said. Mr. Bitney related that the Alaska Homebuilders Association would like to participate on this task force, however the association isn't requesting a seat on the task force. He related his understanding that [members of the Alaska Homebuilders Association] could vie for four potential seats and the association is willing to do that. Mr. Bitney highlighted the importance of this task force working and the need to avoid stacking the task force in any way. Number 0727 REPRESENTATIVE GUTTENBERG asked if Mr. Bitney believes the group proposed in the legislation can do the job to everyone's satisfaction. MR. BITNEY answered that it would depend upon the individuals appointed; it comes down to making good selections. Number 0798 DAVID OWENS, Owner, Owens Inspection Services, testified in support of HB 269. However, he noted his agreement with Mr. Bitney regarding the importance of having a balanced [task force with representation] from all areas of concern. He expressed the need for a certified building inspector or someone from the building inspection industry to be part of the [task force]. Number 0850 JAMES BAISDEN, Kenai Fire Marshall, Kenai Fire Department, testified in opposition to HB 269. He said he didn't believe the current system is broken. The only reason to have this task force is to [placate] those who would rather see the adoption of the Uniform Building Code. With regard to the sponsor statement that says there are five primary codes, Mr. Baisden said that there are really two codes: the International Code group and the Uniform Code group. He mentioned that he has done some research on the Internet and gleaned that about 40 states have either in whole or in part adopted the International Building Code. With regard to the concerns surrounding seismic issues, Mr. Baisden said that both codes address seismic issues in a similar fashion by referencing the National Fire Protection Association Codes. Mr. Baisden recalled testimony regarding California's use of the Uniform Fire Code, and related his understanding that California still uses the 1997 Uniform Building Code because there is no [current] Uniform Building Code to adopt. He related his belief that the 2000 [International Building Code] works well to protect the citizens of Alaska. With regard to the make-up of the task force, he echoed earlier testimony regarding the fact that it doesn't include a representative from the building officials or the fire code officials, which he believes is deliberate because there is no desire to hear from these officials. He noted his disagreement with the earlier suggestion to change language [on page 2, line 6] such that it wouldn't refer to a "family of codes." He, as a code official, said that such a change would make it harder to enforce the codes. He then turned to the earlier mention of local amendments. Currently, the state fire marshal is appointed by the governor and that individual is a good representative when it comes to adopting these codes. Furthermore, deferred jurisdiction can be used so that the city can take on the code enforcement process. Lastly, there has been no discussion with regard to the costs related to training the code enforcement [officials] to become recertified in these codes. Number 1035 CHARLES DEARDEN, Building Official, City of Ketchikan, announced that after talking with the mayor, the fire chief, city council members, architects, engineers, and local builders, "we" are opposed to HB 269. Basically, this is viewed as the NFPA 5000 against the [International Building Code]. Furthermore, he believes that it's loaded toward the unions and thus IAPMO is probably pressing for this legislation. He expressed the hope that the task force wouldn't be weighted in favor of either union or nonunion entities. He echoed Mr. Braisden's comments regarding the expense to be retrained and be recertification. Mr. Dearden indicated that "we" are comfortable with the International Building Code. He pointed out that there are really no uniform building codes available. He concluded by reiterating his opposition to HB 269. MR. DEARDEN related his belief that the state fire marshal, who is the building official for the state, should head this (indisc.) and perhaps bring the workforce development into the department of building safety. He suggested that there could be a building task force run by that entity. Number 1169 REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG pointed out that currently the statutes are in conflict because the International Building Code has been adopted, although the mechanical and plumbing codes are still on the books. He inquired as to how Mr. Dearden, as a building official, enforces the building code when that conflict exists. MR. DEARDEN informed the committee that [Ketchikan] is still under the 1997 code and will be going to the 2000 code. He noted that he accepts the 2000 International Building Codes or the 1997 Uniform Building Codes. Basically, [Ketchikan] is following the state fire marshal's adopted codes so that there isn't any disparity between architects, engineers, and builders. If the NFPA 5000 is adopted, then [Ketchikan] will have to follow that. He said it would be appropriate for a state building inspector to be the head of this [task force]. REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG surmised then that [Ketchikan] is working toward the adoption of the International family of codes. MR. DEARDEN replied yes, [Ketchikan] is going to adopt the 2000 [International family of codes]. Basically, the fire department would take over from the state the requirements of looking at the schools, hospitals, and libraries. The state fire marshal would give the [city] responsibility, which would eliminate a portion of the state's budget, to do this. In order for this transfer of responsibility to occur, the city must adopt the state codes. REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG surmised then that currently if there is a state project, the state fire marshal would assert authority over the local building official. MR. DEARDEN replied yes, adding that he didn't mind because the goal of life and safety is the same. The [state fire marshal] would perform the plan review for life and safety, while [the building official] would perform the reviews for the electrical, mechanical, and plumbing. Mr. Dearden said, "Since we're going to become deferred - which now I ... don't know if we're going to want to go through this process if we're not going to be able to adopt the same codes, the same codes that I've been certified for." He informed the committee that he is a certified International Building Code inspector, plan examiner, IRC welding inspector, and has passed the first part of the IRC building inspector test. To change all the aforementioned would be a hardship on the community. MR. DEARDEN, in further response to Representative Rokeberg, confirmed that the mechanical code is the odd code out, although there are other codes that can be adopted. Mr. Dearden commented that there isn't a huge difference other than the International codes are engineer oriented while the Uniform codes utilize certain criteria that has been established over the years. REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG inquired as to whether the state fire marshal is working against the International codes, and therefore the engineer and design community may have to design one way under one set of codes for the state and another way under another set of codes for [the Ketchikan jurisdiction] until the change is made. MR. DEARDEN explained that currently the 2000 [International Building Codes] have been adopted and are enforced, although the city is under the 1997 [Uniform Building Code]. Number 1431 GARY POWELL, Director State Fire Marshall, Division of Fire Prevention, Department of Public Safety, began by mentioning that it's not unusual for the fire service to have a slightly different opinion than the state fire marshal, and therefore he noted that he is speaking on behalf of the Department of Public Safety. Mr. Powell provided the following testimony: We understand the complexity of the issue that's before the committee. And we do not necessarily oppose the concept of a balanced task force. However, we feel that there are a number of disciplines that have no representative as it is currently written. Most notable among those missing is a representative from the fire safety community. Not only does the fire code play a crucial role in the construction of a building it also becomes a primary governing code throughout the life of the building. The fire code provides a means for protecting occupants, the structure, the contents, and the first responders in case of an emergency. Currently, fire safety representation is limited to a single, nonvoting, advisory member. Further, there is no representation for industry, and more specifically the oil and gas industry. The future codes adopted in this state will play a crucial role in the development of oil and gas production and transportation infrastructure such as the TAPS [Trans-Alaska Pipeline System] strategic reconfiguration (indisc.) point and Alpine expansion projects. There's no representation for building owners; the individual that owns the building after construction should have a voice in how the building is constructed and how it's maintained after occupancy. Building officials also deserve a seat at the table. They're the ones responsible for the safety of construction and ease of their jurisdictions. Last, but certainly not least, the general public has a vested interest in the adoption of building and trade codes; they are and will be effected each and every day by the recommendations of the task force. This issue is not unique to Alaska, the same struggle is waged in most western states since the discontinuation of the publication of the Uniform Building Code in 1997. And we all knew the Uniform Building Code ..., were it not for that discontinuation of the publication we'd probably not be here today. However, I feel we must rise to the challenge put before us and adopt a set of building and safety codes that are in the best interest of the state as a whole. The Oregon example was raised briefly as well as the California example. For the record, the Oregon package of codes is the International Building Code, International Fire Code, International Mechanical Code, Uniform Plumbing Code, International Electrical Code, International Fuel Gas Code, and International Residential Code. Ironically, this is the precise mixture of codes we have in Alaska at this time, with the exception of the residential code is not adopted on a statewide basis, but (indisc.) by local jurisdictions. The balance of the Oregon code review committee was three engineers, three municipal code officials, two fire representatives, one mechanical contractor, one architect, and one building contractor. Also, I feel I might want to respond to the seismic requirements. I'm certainly not an engineer, but I've heard that the International Code seismic requirements are more stringent because they're more (indisc.) and have had the most recent review. As it pertains to the sprinkler's license, those requirements are governed by NFPA 13 regardless of which code you adopt .... I really would find it hard to believe that they have (indisc.) susceptibility in one code and not the other. Number 1643 STEVE SHUTTLEWORTH, Building Official, City of Fairbanks, said that since the committee has a copy of the letter from the Mayor of the City of Fairbanks, he wouldn't take the time to read it. Mr. Shuttleworth clarified, "We really have great contractors in the Fairbanks area ..., we just simply disagree on one subject. But we don't disagree on our responsibilities when we come to work every day and that is that the building department does the plan review for code compliance ... and the contractors build it." Although Mr. Shuttleworth didn't comment on the seismic issues, he eluded to the fact that in that area a little information is dangerous. Mr. Shuttleworth left the committee with the following analogy: Imagine that the same legislative branch was tasked with trying to solve aviation safety in the Bush and the legislature, through their well-meaning efforts, appointed various people. ... But they left out a certified and professional pilot. That's exactly what this Senate Bill has done. We are supportive of the ... concept, but regardless of what code you end up adopting in the Twenty-Third Legislature ... I will come to work that next day. And I will be looking only one thing and that's code review compliance ... it will not be to become the lowest bidder, it will not be to ... buy merchandise pumps or pipes or anything else. It will just simply be code review. ... To leave off folks that do that on a professional, daily basis, and consider that you have a balanced ... task force ... is naïve and I would just hope that the committee would consider all the input today. Number 1759 BILL SAGER, Mechanical Contractors of Fairbanks, informed the committee that the Mechanical Contractors of Fairbanks represent 10 local contractors. He announced that the Mechanical Contractors of Fairbanks are in favor of HB 269, which seems to be a good compromise. With regard to appointing a building official to the task force, Mr. Sager suggested that consideration might be given to appointing a building official to the governor's advisory panel. Number 1807 ERIC MOHRMANN, Fire Chief, Chena/Goldstream Fire and Rescue, began by informing the committee that he has also been the deputy fire marshal for the City of Fairbanks for 20 years during which he enforced the Uniform Fire Code and its predecessor. Twelve years ago the ICC started working toward standardizing codes across the nation. Through a great deal of effort over a number of years, the three independent model code organizations merged into the ICC and developed the International [family of] codes. The separate codes within the International [family of] codes are integrated with each other, which is important with regard to construction and design. He explained that the purpose behind this merger was to have a usable code nationwide that doesn't have conflicts built in. With regard to the adoption of new codes, the state fire marshal's office has done public hearings. He mentioned that local amendments are important as well. If these [codes] are to be reviewed again, he suggested that fire department and building official representation would be crucial on this task force. A great deal of the code deals with seismic issues and life and safety issues, which primarily revolve around the reaction of a building and the persons within the building to fires. In response to Chair Anderson, Mr. Mohrmann specified that representation from both the fire department and the building official [professions] should be on the voting committee. Number 1956 DENNIS MICHEL, American Mechanical Contracting Firm; President, Mechanical Contractors, mentioned that this probably isn't the best forum for this debate on code issues. Contractors represent those who perform the work and who have a real vested interest. Mr. Michel said, "When you're starting to look at redesigning these panels and starting to load it with fire officials and ... building officials that dilutes representation potentially from the labor force that makes a living off of installing these systems." The labor force, because of their five years of apprenticeship program, has a vested interest in the development of a stable set of codes. Therefore, the mechanical contractors have agreed to this [task force] as a manner of resolving this issue. Number 2012 KEN AKERLY, Alaska Fire Standards Council, Department of Public Safety, informed the committee that he represents that Alaska State Firefighters Association on the council. The Alaska State Firefighters Association feels strongly that there should be adequate fire service representation on the task force, as a voting member. Mr. Akerly noted that he still uses both the International Building Code and the Uniform Building Code. Both codes uses NFPA 13 to govern sprinkler systems. Therefore, he said he feels that the International family of codes is a good code; everything should be uniform. However, he agreed with earlier statements that the ICC is making money off of the codes, which is true of all the codes. Regardless of the code used, Mr. Akerly indicated that the task force can't provide building safety to the citizens and emergency responders without having adequate fire service representation on the task force. CHAIR ANDERSON highlighted the testimony regarding the need to include representation from the fire industry, the building administration profession, and labor, and announced that HB 269 would be held over.
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